Hindsight

Moe was asked to do this comedy night thing, so she asked me to do it with her about why we don't do comedy night things. (The last time we did, people didn't like it.) I get terrible stage fright, but the event, which was this past Sunday night, was actually really positive closure, at least for me. When people on the internet were all pissed off at us this summer for not being good role models, some of them took a moment to look down on us from their high horses to tell us that, at some point down the road, when we look back on the things we said, we'd gain some perspective, see the error of our ways, and learn from the experience. It's true that in looking back on it four months later, I've gained some perspective—that it's laughable how much people overreacted for no reason and that Lizz Winstead is a bigger phony than I'd initially thought.

We began our set by explaining that we've done a comedy night together before, and then read our reviews from it:

"One of the most horrendous displays of girl-on-girl crime I've ever witnessed."

"Humor just for fun is great—unless it's for fun at women's expense."

"It seemed a little too evident that these ladies were not rebelling against the men who have hurt them in their lives, or oppressive governments, or boys clubs that have kept them low on the career totem pole, but desperately trying to prove their worth to their mommy’s and daddy’s and their bourgeois peers."

What our boss at our own site said:

"I went through a range of emotions watching the video: amusement, annoyance, disbelief, empathy, and disgust. I can't apologize for anyone else or explain the reasons and nuances behind the choices they made and the roads they went down — they can do that on their own time and on their own blogs — but I can say that I understand the anger and disappointment among some of our readers, and am frustrated by the wasted opportunity."

And, finally, what Lizz said:

"Their work on Jezebel has made them role models for young women everywhere. After reading their posts to prepare for the interview, I wanted to have a conversation about Hillary and sexism, women's magazines and if they feel any obligation to write about responsibility and safety when they write graphically about their sex lives."

The biggest pile of bullshit is that Lizz said that she read our posts. She actually confessed to my boss, before she posted about us on HuffPo, that she wasn't that familiar with our work. And that is so fucking clear. To illustrate this point, Moe and I then read aloud a list of some of our post titles:

I Like Guys to Come on My Ass on the First Date
Herpes Is So Whatevs
10 Days in the Life of a Tampon
Rape Can Be Funny
Is It Rape If You Had Too Many Jaeger Shots To Remember It Anyway?
The Shenis, Or, What Happens When Girls Pee Standing Up (with video!)
Can You Masturbate When Other People Are Around?
Handicap Porno: Offensive or Inclusive?
Last Night I Boned an AVN Award Nominee
Vaginal Prolapse: A Scary Tale
So Is Ahmadinejad Kind of Hot?
Queefs: What's the Ettiquette for Dealing with Air Up There?
The Consequences of Pull-Outs (The Sex Kind)
Are Girls Too Busy Giving Blow Jobs To Engage in Girl Scoutlike Empowering Shit Anymore? (And Are We?)
Do Oral and Anal Count as "Real Sex"?
Period Sex: "It's Like My Dick Killed Something!"
Sex Without Condoms Is Actually Better Than Diamonds, People!
Why Quit Drinking When You Could Get Killed By TSA Agents or the Burmese Junta Tomorrow?
Eating Disorders Can Turn You Into an Alcoholic. Is That So Bad?
Three Drinks Can Cause Breast Cancer. But What About Six Drinks?

For over a year, we'd been writing posts like that on the same site that our disappointed critics claimed to love and read avidly. So my question now is the same as back in July: What the fuck was with all the pearl-clutching over what we said to Lizz?

We were running a little over during our set on Sunday, so we needed to wrap it up quickly. (We totally just went in there winging it, without rehearsing or really preparing.) Before we stepped away from the mic, Moe quickly blurted out, "Wait, I don't think rape jokes can be funny!"

To which I said, "Yes they can. Just not when told by us. Apparently."

Comments

[Smitty]

tru dat biatch! luvya! ;)

[Parker]

To which you pointed out, 'I still don't get it but I get paid. Apparently.'

[Angela]

Right on, glad to see you posting more here also!

[Matt]

Great post! Glad it sounds like you're shaking off their bullshiiite. Fucking hypocrites.

[Liz]

I thought the whole thing was ridiculous. People WAY over-reacted. And if they don't like what you have to say, then they don't have to watch/read/listen to it. End of story.
It's amazing to read the comments on this site sometimes, with idiots trashing you for ridiculous reasons- Like they are forced to read what you have to say.
Keep on keepin' on!

[Stan]

Keep on truckin' Tracie, the internet hate from last time was hilarious and you and moe were totally vilified unfairly. Glad to see you had not forgotten to defend yourselves.

(ps-link to I Like Guys to Come on My Ass on the First Date post plz)

[anon]

i'm in-fucking-love with both you & moe. everyone over-reacted. lizz is a cunt.

[Mikaya]

I never really paid attention to that fiasco when you were talking about it; srs things don't really interest me on the internet. After reading all the links and watching the whole video, I though:

That was not nearly as big a fiasco as everyone made it out to be IMO.
I was not surprised by anything you said.

I didn't think Lizz did a great job interviewing. I wasn't particularily dazzled by what was going on; there wasn't a lot of a flow to it. IDK, like you aren't rolemodels to some pretween 13 year old who just got done with Barbie as a hero. I'd hope the people you're apparently supposed to be acting professionally for can actually think for themselves enough to not really base decisions because of a blog article they read; not to undermine you or anything, but people saying that as role model's you should be saying certain things and expression certain opinions...you were saying what you thought. I'm 20, but just because you're older and more experienced than me in what you talk about doesn't mean I'm going to do the things you talk about in the methods you describe them, because it's my own responsibility to decide whether I actually agree with what you're writing. And since when did subscribing to a certain belief system make a person some authority on it? Just because you identify as a feminist doesn't mean your ideas will be popular with many, or any other feminists, or make you some important leader in the modern feminist culture because you have a well-known blog.

W.eva this whole thing seems to have been really blown out of proportion.

[MissRobyn]

I think a lot of it was editing, honestly. The first part of the interview that was posted was inflammatory and taken out of context- when watching the whole thing it was obvious that Winstead had an angle that she was trying to push. Also- it's not your job to be a role model anyway. And if like, women over the age of 16 are mad that you're not being a "good role model" for them... well, they obviously have problems in life that have nothing to do with you. Also, I don't see anyone criticizing male writers for not being good role models anywhere. Just sayin.

[johnathan]

i don't get what's up with people these days. personally, i thought y'all were kinda funny during that interview (panel? discussion?). i agreed with team tracie back then in that lizz just showed herself to be irrelevant, incompetent, and ungracious in handling the situation. it woulda been rad if she could have just came out and told the truth, "oh, sorry guys, i didn't care to take 15 min. to see what these ladies were all about. i didn't expect their candor and good looks to be so threatening."

[Emily H.]

I'm glad you had fun on Sunday night. With the Winstead thing, people not only overreacted, but mis-reacted entirely -- it was clear that the things you guys said were jokes, & the audience at the time was laughing (as I recall, at least). What's up with people being like "humor is funny, but not when it's about important stuff!" Sheesh, that is what humor is for.

[hapbt]

i personally thought just the post titles were hilarious
i would like to see more cleavage in the future tho

[Chartreuse]

That Moe girl looks like fucking Quasimoto.

Fuck Jezebel, though. I would leave if my boss wrote what yours did without even letting you speak for yourself. What a cunt.

[Lolita Hazed]

I read the whole thing from that night and I don't think you did anything wrong. I thought the shit you said came out completely crystal clear-- and you're right, there's no such thing as a bad feminist.

[Emily]

If I were Moe I might want another picture of me posted. She's a pretty girl but in the picture she kinda looks like you're comforting her after she got jumped.

[Jim]

Moe is fucking hot at all times.

Tracie I like your stuff and your funny slang and insane references and you always seem like such a strong individual that I do admire you, but I've always understood that you're not preaching a lifestyle, you're explaining it.

Or are you, because it's not my random commenter's place to tell you what you're doing.

But seriously the real point I'm trying to make is that Moe is fine like the sunshine and anybody who thinks differently is probably some sort of idiot or whatever.

[MobPrincess]

Oh the drama...everybody must be getting close to their rag days, right? :)))

[Darling Nicky]

I'm not familiar with this Lizz, but I read about the whole fiasco and remember thinking to myself "What could Moe and/or Tracie have said that was so horrible that isn't thier usual on Jezebel?" Then I saw the video online, and saw how some of it was twisted (especially after having read the unedited transcript), but I did see how Lizz was being a bit of a cunt. Anyone who has reading Jezebel for the past year would know that the writers on the site are pretty blunt, and that's why it has the audience it has.
Thanks for the link to Moe's site! I've been wondering what she's up to...

[Jes]

I totally cannot believe you are bringing this all up again!

I love the idea of reading aloud your post titles. Genius.

[candice]

oh. this.

START WRITING ABOUT FUCKING AND OTHER COOL SHIT AGAIN, JESUS THIS IS INSUFFERABLE.

[April Mayhem]

Oh my fucking god. i cannot even express logically how fucking angry that cake-eating bitch got me when she made that herpes/gonorrhea comment. she is trying to create a serious and intelligent review and then totally discredits herself with that malicious inanity. she's making you out to be dirty and almost inviting of disease. nobody fucking asks to get herpes. i have herpes simplex 1 and i got it in a way i never even thought plausible. my boyfriend of 2 yrs had a blister on his lip and was eating my pussy most intensely and pleasurably. consequently, 1 week later i have these god awful blisters. a few days into that ordeal, i stumbled across your site and i cried because i've never heard anybody talk about it so honestly. and you're fucking right! it's not that big of a deal. fuck that bitch, and let her call herself a real feminist. it's just words anyway.

[April Mayhem]

ps. i agree with the previous poster, also. i like reading what you have to say about "fucking and other cool shit."

[April Mayhem]

p.p.s. so while MEN like hunter s. thompson, kerouac, hemmingway, and bukowski will be eternally praised as brilliant writers and equally talented druggies, drunks, and degenerates of the twentieth century, we as women must "raise" ourselves to embrace the title of "role model to young women"? how about we just write the fucking truth about our experience and emotions without the inhibitions with which women, men, and society at large try to strangle us? it seems (though i didn't agree with some things on either side) that this lizz character was merely acting on behalf of the generations of female literary suppressionists that she claims to so loudly oppose.

[ClyTy]

Saying that you and Moe are not good role models is like saying that a character in a novel is not a good role model. Everything that Lizz Winstead said about you is so misguided and really highlights what is wrong with second wave feminism. It's great and important and everything - don't get me wrong, but let's move forward.

BTW, I don't know if it had anything to do with your appearance on 'let's get intoxicated and set our guests up for failure', but Jezebel seems to have been neutered or something. I used to love it but now I feel like it's being marketed toward 15 year old morman girls who have bourgeoning liberal streaks.

[purejuice]

oh, give to em. what a bunch of PC clux.

[Mr. Poe]

Message(s) received, and duly noted.

[nemo]

I just backtracked from jezebel to here,& then to that full show's clip. absolutely revolting, your & mo's behavior. while liz didnt look like a polished host, she seemed to at least go out of her way to be fair to you guys & gave you so many chances to straighten up. im done with jezebel, after seeing this whole thin, including your comments on the jess & josh blog. you honestly think you did nothing wrong & were set up? That is some sad assed shit. Pathetic. I hope both of you grow up, but you probably wont. Youll be sad old diseased, alcoholic, divorced hags in a few years. At least you wont be revered by misguided young idiots anymore.
And dear 30yr old tracy, i hope you birth a "retard" & have that word be shoved into your brain like a stilletto everytime you hear it & how its used to mock your completely vulnerable & innocent child. But i doubt you would have any feelings for a child, vulnerable or not; your an uncaring bitch --uncaring about everything but herself.

[pinkcow]

Commenting after the fact to irrelevance most likely.

Maybe you've acknowledged somewhere that saying that you haven't been raped because you're "like, smart" was a poor choice of words, and I'm sure the booze didn't help, but I can certainly understand why people hissed at you. I might hiss too if I heard someone say that. We all say dumb thing sometimes that don't quite come out right and upset people. Owning up to that is important I think. Thing is, being smart can help someone avoid bad situations, but it certainly isn't a guarantee, which is where I think the offense came from.

And, Moe was a seemingly flippant and blase about her assault, but I honestly took that as a coping mechanism (and booziness).

All in all, it just seemed like a bad interview. If the host wasn't familiar with your work, seems like a good chunk of the blame lies with her.